October 7, 2008

Random Reading on Proposition 8

Excerpts from blogs that caught my attention today…

The day I saw the People magazine cover of Ellen Degeneres and her beautiful bride, Portia DeRossi, I arrived home to a note on my door from those supporting the Prop. 8 initiative and how it would interfere with my husband’s and my ability to be a married couple.

I had an imaginary conversation in my head about how that conversation might go had the note-dropper actually reached me while at home. …

“Yes, we want to talk to you about how gay marriage will destroy heterosexual marriage.”

“OK, uh, how might that happen? Are you telling me my husband is gay?”

“Well, no….but…”

“Does a gay man want to replace my husband with himself, and sleep on his side of the bed?”

“No, that’s not what I’m saying…”

“Do I have to have a female spouse, whether I want one or not?”

“No. That’s not what we’re saying. What we’re…I mean…”

“Do I have to fix dinner or do laundry for two random gay guys once they get married?”

“No, not at all.”

“Will my husband and I have to alter our sexual preferences, food choices, or what we wear or where “we work”?

“No, we’re not saying that.”

“Do my husband and I have to get divorced because two gay people get married? I mean, is there a limited number of marriage licenses similar to the limited number of liquor licenses in the city of Chico? Someone has to die to get one?”

“No, but homosexuality is an abomination”!

“Well then I’m not exactly sure how it is that two strangers who love each other, pledge their loyalty, their lives, and their love to one another, could ever possibly interfere with my husband and I. I just don’t see that ever happening.”

“Well, it will destroy the institution of marriage”!

“Let me tell you something; the only thing that will destroy the institution of marriage at our house is if my husband doesn’t quit throwing his underwear on the floor. Now you’re being ridiculous so go away.”

*slam* …

Mark:

…I met with about 10 of my Mormon friends who are absolutely opposed to Proposition 8 here in California. Proposition 8, if it passes, will remove the right to marry the person you love if you are gay. It’s as simple as that. Sadly, the our church has come down on the wrong side of this issue - the truly moral, Christian and ethical way to behave is to love and support all of God’s children in their quest for love. And there are few things that are more important than being loved and loving in return. Why people find that frightening is beyond me. But fortunately, the Gospel requires us to think, ponder and pray after we hear guidance from our leaders - and after we think, ponder and pray we HAVE to follow what the Spirit and the Light of Christ leads us to do. That’s the wonderful thing about the Gospel!

Beno:

last week’s issue of the silicon valley metro had a cover picture of some local pastor who is trying to mobilise local christians for proposition 8 that would impose a statewide ban on gay marriage. i see plenty of television ads for the proposition 8 campaign. anyway, the cover story talked about proposition 8 and the christian community. inside, it has a picture of a pastor from jubilee christian center that is leading the campaign against proposition 8. now, why didn’t they put him on the front cover? why is it that the extremist christians always get the most publicity? do the we condone making the extremist muslims the posterchildren of islam?! the extremist, conservative, hateful christians are unfortunately the most vocal. while the compassionate, loving christians among us are soft-spoken and get lost in the media hubbub. ain’t that a shame?

Todd Bouldin:

While I assume my readers have various points of view concerning the issue of gay marriage, I hope that my California readers will understand that they are being asked to reverse a right already given to California citizens by law. The members of the Court who granted this right were not “judicial activists” but rather Republican-appointed judges who only ruled after Governor Schwarzenegger said that it their prerogative rather than the Assembly, which already had passed the law as well. When the Legislature and the Court have affirmed this right, it seems to me a moral injustice to use the Constitution to remove a right where one already exists. This to me is morally and constitutionally different than banning a right that does not already exist; voters are being asked to take away a right that already belongs to Californians by law. Americans use Constitutions to expand rights, not restrict them.

Therefore, I will be voting “No” on Proposition 8 for this reason. The expansion of rights limited no one else’s rights. My reasons against the proposition have nothing to do with moral or religious reasons — my reasons are constitutional and libertarian. Why are cultural and religious conservatives supporting this proposition? Because it is more important to them to make a statement against an “agenda” they fear rather than because these rights are unconstitutional. Ever noticed how human dignity is called an “agenda” when it’s not one of our own rights at stake?

For all of the good intentions of some who may feel compelled to support the proposition, it is fundamentally a proposition that strips rights from people while also enshrining this indignity into the Constitution. What if Californians voted to remove the right to free speech or the free expression of religion to those who feel they should use this proposition to remove rights from those with whom they disagree? Liberty is a two way street. We only enjoy liberty to choose for ourselves because we give liberty to others to choose what is best for themselves. As my good Libertarian friend says, “Not everything that is immoral should be illegal.”

I encourage my fellow Californians to vote “No” on Proposition 8.

aileen’s web diary:

are we all hypocrites? …

at the end of the day, freedom is about allowing people to choose the lifestyle and religious beliefs they prefer as long as it doesn’t pose threat to others. democracy is about respecting those differences. i generally don’t have strong feelings about political topics that don’t directly apply to me, because i trust that those who care more will push for their desired outcome. however, google’s explanation for why it cares about proposition 8 is right on: the motion runs directly contrary to the core values of this country, while pretending that there is some higher moral reason for doing so. like palin’s answer to gay marriage during last week’s vp debate (for that matter, her answers to any question during last week’s debate — but i digress), the arguments i’ve heard against gay marriage have been so laughable that i am baffled and embarrassed that this is even being debated in 21st century america.

Reo:

So perhaps you have religious beliefs that tell you that homosexuality is a sin or you believe based on Darwinian theories of biology that homosexuals should not exist because sexual attraction between members of the same sex is unnatural (we can have that discussion, you and I, another time if so), and I’ll leave you to those beliefs. But, if you believe that the state should interpret its definition of what amounts to a civil right based on a religious, traditional or personal belief, just consider this: what would happen if the same decision were held true in the civil rights era? Was it not a religious, traditional or personal belief that Black Americans and White Americans cannot have equal access to education or to buses or to bathroom facilities? And as to the claim that people would be prosecuted for their personal beliefs with this decision, I’m sorry, but I believe that those people should be prosecuted when they seek to use those beliefs to deny rights to individuals based only on one quality of who that person is. Remember, this decision says nothing about whether or not churches have to grant these marriages, only that state institutions have to recognize them and bestow rights accordingly. I hope, with that in mind, that if you can vote in California that you will, and that you will vote a vehement NO on Prop 8. However else you vote is no concern of mine; but, in this case, this issue is about whether or not our society supports equal civil rights. Same-sex marriage is not a political issue; it is a right. I’m sorry, but politicians are using it–and have been using it for years–to divide the country along religious lines. It’s time these needless issues give way to the real ones (like, say, economic policy or energy). And frankly, this country has made no progress if this measure passes, and I hope (yeah, I said it, I hope) that that’s not true.

Rev. Ricky Hoyt:

My husband and I were married two years ago in a Unitarian Universalist Church. … To honor my husband’s Jewish heritage his two brothers held the tallit shawl over our heads as his mother performed the Havdalah blessing for ushering in the Sabbath, and symbolically for us ushering in a new way of living, thereafter, as a married couple. …

For the ten years I’ve been a minister I’ve told every couple that I marry, that a wedding is the spiritual act of taking the private relationship of a couple and setting it into the context of something larger than just the two of them. It’s about creating a covenant: first of all between the couple and God, secondly between the couple and the two families that their marriage unites, and lastly a covenant between the two of them and the larger society that depends on the institution of marriage for stability and progress. The married couple agrees to take on the responsibility of not just loving each other, but for using the strength of their marriage to contribute to the larger good: the happiness of their family and friends, the health of society, and to further the divine goals of God. …

I can’t say that the lack of a marriage license did anything to diminish the joy of the day. But lack of legal recognition from the state where I’ve lived for more than forty years did hurt. The Sunday after the wedding I explained to the children in my church that my husband and I had been married spiritually but not legally. After the service one of the children came up to me and said, “When you said your wedding wasn’t legal, does that mean it was illegal?” …

My husband and I were legally married last month. It is my marriage and the marriages of thousands of other couples who had been waiting 10, 20, 30 or more years and were finally wed this summer that are threatened by Proposition 8. It is the equal right of all young people throughout California to look forward to their wedding day that is threatened by Proposition 8, and a yes vote would destroy that hope and dream for some of them. …

My faith tells me that while my religious beliefs may differ from yours that both your beliefs and mine are best protected by a government that favors neither religion in crafting its laws. My faith tells me that God seeks our joy, individually and universally, and that God sees love in all its forms as the surest route to joy. The God I worship celebrates love wherever it appears, nurtures love and protects love, and uses the love God finds to further the progress of love throughout all creation, leading us all eventually back to the one love that gave us all birth.

Frank S:

When an amendment proposes taking rights away from one group in society, it is a very dangerous prospect. Remember, the Nazis not only persecuted Jews in World War II, but also gays. I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but it’s still a form of persecution.

According to Dictionary.com, to persecute is, to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.

The columnist Michael Mayo, recently published an article on same-sex marriage in the Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel and the AARP Bulletin today. He urged his readers to vote no on Florida’s initiative, “As a married heterosexual man who considers himself enlightened, I don’t understand the fuss over same-sex marriage. Amendment 2 is titled “The Florida Marriage Protection Amendment,” but it should be called “The Florida Marriage Exclusion Amendment.” “

He went on to write, “Like antiquated laws barring interracial marriages, a ban on gay marriage doesn’t protect the institution of marriage. It just prolongs bigotry.” As for those who use outrageous excuses to be against the idea of same-sex marriage, he offered this solution, “…for those who argue same-sex marriage would open the door to polygamy, incest or bestiality, read my lips. Marriage would be defined as a partnership between two (2) adult humans who aren’t closely related. That would pretty much rule out a marriage between a father, his 14-year-old daughter and four orangutans. “

I couldn’t have said it better myself. For those of you in California, please vote no on Proposition 8 and for Florida voters I urge you to vote no on Amendment 2.

Jeffrey Lieber:

Look, there is absolutely no compelling or suspenseful reason for most of us in California to vote.

Barack Obama will win in this state because every progressive, centrist, and near-Democrat is gnawing off our digits waiting to vote for President, we have no Senate races and with the exception of CA-4 (BROWN (D) VS. McClintock (ASSHOLE)) there isn’t a race that won’t be called 38 seconds after the polls close.

That is, with the exception of PROP 8, the Its Not OK Any More To Outwardly Be Prejudiced Against Black People, So Picking On Teh Gays is The Best We Can Do Act. …

Yes, folks, apparently preventing my good friends Matt and Greg from being able to see each other in the hospital when they get in a fight and one of them runs over the others’ foot in a fit of rage like happens in every heterosexual marriage is “central not only to California, BUT TO OUR VERY CIVILIZATION.”

Seriously… though I’m convinced that marriage for all (read, “the right to throw a over-priced party, where a couple of your friends who are TOTALLY WRONG FOR EACH OTHER hook up in a porta-potty”) is coming to California eventually, the question is… how many more decent, intelligent, moral, wonderful people have to have their commitment demeaned and questioned by… well… troglodytes?

Here’s where you learn all about it.

Here’s where you give.

Here’s where you help kill it dead for good.